Goals

Comments

I disagree with your reading of that goal statement. The word "route" in alternate route implies that it leads to something, namely in this case, teaching. If a participant does not continue teaching, then how has MTC been an alternate route for them to become a teacher? In the end, they are not teachers. They are simply burning two years, getting wiser by the experience, and patting themselves on the back at the end of it all. I do not think you are fulfilling even that statement of the goal.
"Alternate-route" is shorthand for "alternate-route certification" so the word route simply implies certification.

Your comment is a good example of why we need to sit down and figure out our goals. Is the goal of the program to recruit and train people to stay in teaching? To stay in teaching in MS? To stay in teaching in MS in a critical-needs school? As I stated in the previous post, MTC means different things to different people, and it would be beneficial to come to consensus on our core goals and values.
Certification for what? That is like saying our goal is to help people get driver's licenses who do not own cars or even intend to drive at all after they get the license!

I agree that more discussion needs to take place about what MTC is for. My personal view is the fist option you mentioned, to recruit and train people to stay in teaching. You cannot bring outsiders to Mississippi and hope for them to stay forever, so further restricting the goal would dramatically restrict your recruiting options, and the quality of the participants would suffer. I am a humanist. I believe in the betterment of humanity, not just in Mississippi, not just in the U.S.A., but all of humanity. And one good way to solve or at least mitigate some of the world's big problems is with better education, which starts with better teachers.

You write that "You cannot bring outsiders to Mississippi and hope for them to stay forever." That is true, but do you not recognize that is also true that we cannot bring people into the field of teaching and expect them to stay forever? What is wrong with someone teaching in a critical-needs schoolfor two years and then doing something else?

I believe that from the hundreds of applicants you have, nationwide, you should be able to find 25 of them who will make a significant career choice out of teaching, who in fact have already made the choice to be a teacher, but for whatever reason did not take the traditional route in undergrad. There is no harm in teaching in a critical needs school for two years and then doing something else. That is good. But we want to be great, right? MTC is really limiting its impact if it only looks for two years.

But you are defining great as a program that has teachers who remain in the teaching profession. Why not define great as a program that has teachers remain at their school of initial placement? Or as teachers who remain in Mississippi? Or participants who go on to be school administrators? Or participants who are life-long advocates for education? There are myriad number of ways to define great as what our teachers do after the two years. I choose to define the program by what our teachers do during the two years. What comes after that is irrelevant to me as far as measuring the "greatness" of the program. I think we should measure the program by the effect our participants have during the two years of the program.

I disagree. For teachers to stay in their schools of initial placement (draconian, for sure!), or even in Mississippi, is unnecessary for the betterment of humankind, which is my concern, not Mississippi per se. In the broad view, increasing the overall supply of quality teachers should trickle down from top to bottom, state to state. So I feel it is not such a big deal where MTC teachers end up, only what they end up doing. Anyway, as stated earlier, trying to recruit only teachers who will stay in Mississippi would severely limit the recruiting pool to the extent that candidate quality would suffer dramatically. That is not at all an arbitrary distinction to me. By the way, I consider school administrators teachers for the purpose of this discussion, but I am not sure what exactly "lifelong advocates for education" means.

It seems to me, you choose your definition of greatness primarily because it is tidy and convenient, simpler to contemplate and easier to measure. How can you call it ambitious, though? To be the best at supplying inexperienced long-term temps? It is just too convenient, with no long view of the future. My definition is only slightly more complicated. Just consider one more factor: Length of service as a teacher.

Let me backtrack on something I mentioned earlier. I do not think we should only look for candidates who decided already, difinitely, to be teachers. That would not necessarily help increase the supply of quality teachers. But we should look for candidates for whom teaching, to give it an honest go, is at the top of their list, who are not just biding their time for something else.

Another thought: Good teachers are definitely needed at critical needs schools. But what did Good to Great have to say about putting your best people on your biggest problems? I think our placement is sometimes faulty. Some schools are too bad to send MTC teachers to. You only destroy them, as teachers, and accomplish nothing.

We'll have to agree to disagree. As I have stated before, all of this is representative of the main problem: we, as an organization, have never set out what our goals are, or how we will measure those goals. We have never defined our core values. That is a problem.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. I have been advocating for years that we should move towards running our own school, or in lieu of that, flooding a few, carefully selected critical-needs schools, with MTCers. The MTC Summer School gives us a glimpse at what the former would look like...

Mr. A: Candidate quality would suffer dramatically, as you say, by limiting the pool only to those willing to stay in Mississippi; it would similarly suffer by being limited only to those who are prepared to say they want to become and remain teachers.
Is there a word limit or something? My post didn't all go through.

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I think we would agree that teaching would ideally be a career like medicine or law or architecture or engineering that would attract highly intelligent and competent candidates in large numbers and hang on to them. But it isn't. The pay sucks, the caliber of one's colleagues and even superiors is very often dismal, and the environment is toxic. In my own experience it seems that even most of the good teachers who don't leave the profession climb the ladder out of teaching positions or into the best schools. It would require radical changes in our educational system to change this environment, and I think we should make those changes, but they are beyond the mandate of the MTC as an organization.

A lot of very good teachers agree to teach for a few years in programs like MTC and TFA. Without those programs, most of them wouldn't teach at all. And there aren't even enough of them to fill the vacancies, much less to displace the incompetent teachers. It is an indictment of our educational system that it has come to depend upon the short-term agreements of idealistic young people, but it does depend on them, and there isn't a supply of career-educators to turn to if we start turning the others away.

Also, Ben:
Best book on leadership? Really? BEST? Not to be a snob, but. . . Herodotus, Thucydides, Plutarch, Caesar? How about Machiavelli? Tolstoy? Any of a number of (presidential and other) autobiographies or compilations of essays or letters?

In that crowd, Collins is a hack.

Maybe it's the best management book ever, or the best book in the business section. I could concede that. But come on. . .
I've never read most of the authors you listed. I can't stand Machiavelli, think it's total BS. But yes, I love Collins. Is it the greatest book on leadership ever? Probably not. But it's the best I've ever read. Even re-read it every year...

In general, I think we focus on all the wrong things when it comes to leadership, so let me ask you a question. What is the difference between management and leadership?
[this is good]
Machiavelli may be immoral and horrifying, but I don't think it's B.S., exactly, and it is about a sort of leadership.

The question of the difference between leadership and management is a good one.
Why does it keep cutting me off?

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Machiavelli may be immoral and horrifying, but I don't think it's B.S., exactly, and it is about a sort of leadership.

The question of the difference between leadership and management is a good one. I think most of our conversations in MTC classes (and in the Collins) were more about management. Any understanding that doesn't include FDR and Reagan, Hitler and Stalin, Alexander and Napoleon, isn't an understanding of leadership itself.

Incidentally, when the MTC conversations on leadership that I've been a part of have seemed to me to be more about leadership than about management, they have begun to sound a lot like conversations in antiquity about virtue, and what it means to be virtuous (or great-souled, or something similar).
Why does it keep cutting me off?

Maybe Vox agrees with me.

Incidentally, when the MTC conversations on leadership that I've been a part of have seemed to me to be more about leadership than about management, they have begun to sound a lot like conversations in antiquity about virtue, and what it means to be virtuous (or great-souled, or something similar).

I agree. When people talk of leadership they talk about setting the direction, giving electrifying speeches, being charismatic, etc. In general, not really doing much of anything. In fact, I posit the idea that management and leadership (real leadership) are the same thing.

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